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Bipolar Disorder Community
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Different type still progress?
by heartoflove, Nov 04, 2008 04:58PM
Are all types of Bipolar the same, in that they are proven to have increased symptoms as you age?
Most research suggests yes bipolar does get worse with age but saying bipolar itself and as a whole gets progressively wrong is a little faulty. Only certain symptoms may worsen but others may stay the same or even decrease in severity.
Ultimately as we age our minds get to a point where we simply cannot experience reality in the same way as we once did and our perceptions and feelings change because our bodies are getting older. A common symptom that 'tends' to get worse in bipolar sufferers who are very old is paranoia and even delusions but this should not be looked upon as unique to bipolar sufferers. Many 'normal' old people will get increasingly paranoid in their old age it is just the severity in which it affects them.
However, it is NOT true that bipolar necessarily progresses. In actuality, despite what drug companies tell you, there is no predictable pattern for any bipolar type. It may get worse. It may stay the same. It may get better. It may even disappear completely.
America is actually the only country where a psychiatrist is likely to tell you that you will get worse. It's because they get money for every patient they get on drugs for life. In other developed nations (where success rates of treatment are actually higher), they tell you the truth - there is no way to tell.
(I studied psychology for 2 years - I've done the research.)
All chronic illnesses get worse with age and mental illness is no difference - there is a body of evidence and study out there to show this very clearly so its not a myth - not all people with Cyclothymia develop BP1 or 2 but all people with Mental illness will get worse as they grow older - the brain ages the same as the rest of the body.
As one example Bipolar sufferers have a higher risk of early onset dementia past 50 years of age and its increased without treatment. Thats just one example.
The myth that bipolar dissapears is just that - it does not, symptoms can go dormant, some people can go long terms without them - I went 15 years and know people who have gone more but it ALWAYS comes back - Bipolar is a disease which affects everyone differently but it never ever goes away, its not yet curable and its not something that you can or should ignore.
There is NO cure for Bipolar in any form - anyone who tells you there is is someone you should be avoiding - a healthy distrust of big pharma is good but ignoring treatment is not.
I'm not saying that anyone should ignore treatment. But here is a scientific fact: drug therapy for ANY affective illness is no more effective than talk therapy. They are both somewhere around 60%. And there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE proving that bipolar or unipolar depression is accounted for entirely by chemical imbalances. What there is, is proof that certain chemicals, when given to patients with certain mood characteristics, can change their mood. But cocaine can change your mood, too. That doesn't mean your brain naturally produces cocaine.
Drugs are right for some people. And on a crisis basis, a LOT of people. But the prognosis for a bipolar patient actually gets worse if they stay on medication for life. Medication drastically increases their rate of cognitive deterioration and if they remain on it for more than a decade, it will make their affective disorder even worse. That is scientific fact.
There is no predictable pattern for a bipolar patient. It is completely possible for someone to go into permanent remission. And why wouldn't it be? That's exactly what ECT does. It resets the brain, which may result in a permanent remission of the illness. The same thing can occur naturally.
Other patients will get worse with time. Others will show no change.
Age-induced dementia is not a worsening of bipolar. It is age-induced dementia. It's a completely different problem. And as I said earlier, this higher incidence of dementia in bipolar patience is mostly caused by over-medication.
Look it up for yourself. And check your sources. I bet I know where all of yours come from.
I have read numerous books and medical journals that all talk about bipolar disorder getting worse with age. It has been found that the longer a person goes untreated and experiences more episodes, the worse the prognosis of remission and stability. This is also why they theorize that people who have shown symptoms of bipolar disorder since childhood tend to have a poorer prognosis. The 'kindling' theory. The truth is, much of medicine and science is based on theories. They cannot prove everything. Scientists are not able to determine exactly how certain mechanisms in the body work on a cellular level - they have working theories.
I just read a study in a journal today talking about psychotherapy not having a significant impact on people with bipolar disorder alone. Talk-therapy is not going to cure someone with schizophrenia - it does not help every mental disorder. Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are closely related. Someone who is manic cannot be talked out of it. Neither can someone who is severely depressed. I am not saying that talk therapy is not helpful - but it most certainly is not a cure. A combination of therapy and medications has been shown to help. Every psychologist that I have seen has stressed the importance of medications in maintaining stability - they are not being paid by drug companies. They realize the limits of talk therapy. Doctors are not even sure exactly how ECT actually works and I have never heard of anyone being cured by it. ECT is a treatment, but not a cure.
I have also never read anything about medications making this illness worse. Medications can cause other health problems (problems with the: thyroid, heart, liver, kidneys, etc), but I have never heard of them making the bipolar disorder itself worse. Some medicines can cause cognitive decline, but not all, and it can sometimes be reversed upon discontinuation of the med.
I have done plenty of research - I wanted to know everything about this illness when I was first diagnosed, but I certainly do not know everything. I am sure that a lot of people on here have done the same - and not just from wikipedia. Where did you get all of your information from if we do not know what we are talking about?
Evidence for what? Mental illness getting worse with age ?
Do some searches on pubmed for one or so some reading in the psychiatry today archives there's lots of information in general on various subjects to do with the progression of many mental illnesses with age.
"I'm not saying that anyone should ignore treatment. But here is a scientific fact: drug therapy for ANY affective illness is no more effective than talk therapy. They are both somewhere around 60%. And there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE proving that bipolar or unipolar depression is accounted for entirely by chemical imbalances. What there is, is proof that certain chemicals, when given to patients with certain mood characteristics, can change their mood. But cocaine can change your mood, too. That doesn't mean your brain naturally produces cocaine."
Dangerous advice. Bipolar cannot be controlled by talk and therapy and ANYONE who tells you it can is wrong. As for no scientific evidence - this is just the latest study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18955079?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum and its not fully relevant but its where the latest thinking is going - in fact no one who is researching bipolar will tell you that its curable by talk, mood stabilisers, AD and AP drugs as well as anti anxiety drugs all have their uses - the problem with Bipolar is in the right mood space someone can stop taking their drugs and feel fine, they can convince them selves they are cured or they dont need the drugs and then add the right mix of stressors and bang its all back and possibly worse.
"Drugs